Corruption’s Two-Way Street: How UK Bribery and Illicit Flows Drive Global Corruption | with Phil Mason, Anti-corruption policy advisor

Guest Description: Phil Mason a leading player in the global fight against corruption. Mr. Mason has over 20 years of experience at the UK's Department for International Development (DFID) and a long history of international anti-corruption operations.

Episode Description:
In this episode, we discuss the systemic threat of corruption in international development. Phil Mason discusses the internal challenges within development agencies in adopting a holistic strategy to tackle corruption, often seen as a niche issue rather than one that spans sectors like health, education, and infrastructure. Mason stresses that separating corruption from broader development efforts weakens anti-corruption strategies.

Mason also highlights the external pressures agencies face, especially when working with governments. "How do you combat corruption when those you're working with are complicit?" he asks, highlighting the complexities of international collaboration. He advocates for a unified, all-of-government approach, where diplomacy and trade policy play key roles in anti-corruption efforts, not just development agencies.

The episode explores solutions that have proven effective in reducing corruption over the past two decades, including transparency measures like open procurement, e-governance, and asset declarations. Mason explains how these tools reduce opportunities for corruption by increasing the risk of being caught. Additionally, he discusses the transformative role of big data in tracking corruption in real time.

However, Mason cautions that technology alone isn’t enough. He emphasizes the need for follow-through when corruption is exposed, using India's "I Paid a Bribe" campaign as an example of a well-intentioned effort that lacks enforcement. "It’s cathartic to report, but if nothing happens afterward, the impact is lost," he says.

Mason reflects on the personal resilience required to fight corruption, noting that progress is often slow, and the battles are long-term. He also criticizes the constraints of rigid development timelines, arguing that corruption is a generational problem that can't be solved in typical three- to five-year project cycles.

As he concludes, Mason urges development agencies to break free from traditional structures and invest in long-term strategies if they're serious about tackling corruption.

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Chapters

• 5:27 Intro to episode and historical perspective of DFID
• 6:28 Different approaches to perceive corruption
• 13:39 Are there technical solutions to approach political corruption?
• 16:16 Decreasing efforts by donors approaching the anti-corruption problem
• 22:07 The role of developed countries in combating corruption
• 29:31 Aid funded UK law enforcement initiative
• 34:03 Negotiations for the UN Convention Against Corruption in 2003
• 36:38 How money laundering, financial intelligence and mutual legal assistance intersects with development processes?
• 38:41 How development agencies should integrate anti-corruption into their agendas?
• 41:31 Is there any shift at all?
• 44:20 Key personal lessons